ANDERSON — An Anderson attorney wants a new venue for five criminal cases after a judge used an expletive to describe one of his clients during a court hearing and purportedly entered into plea negotiations with the defendant without him being present.

Zaki Ali filed the motion Sept. 23 asking Madison Circuit Court Judge Fredrick Spencer to recuse himself and that a new judge be appointed for all of Ali’s criminal cases being heard in the judge’s court. Ali, a former Circuit Court public defender, claims his clients can’t get fair treatment from Spencer. The attorney also filed a formal complaint against Spencer with the Indiana Commission on Judicial Qualifications.

“Since I have resigned as a public defender in Judge Spencer’s court ... his treatment of me has been less than professional,” Ali said during a court hearing Wednesday. “In fact, a great deviation from professional by way of words and conduct towards (me) personally.”

The dispute was sparked when Ali’s client, Christopher J. Mier, 20, Anderson, made an initial court appearance before Spencer on July 28. Mier is charged with theft, a Class D felony, and forgery, a Class C felony. Ali was not present for the routine hearing, and a not-guilty plea was automatically entered for Mier.

During the hearing, however, Spencer called Mier and Deputy Prosecutor Patrick Ragains to the bench. The judge’s microphone was turned off or muted, but another court microphone record the judge talking with Mier.

“Let’s don’t drag this out and make a big deal out of it,” Spencer tells Mier, according to a transcript of the conversation. “I’m just saying you made a dumb-___ mistake. This is no big deal. Just take care of it. Pay the money you owe, come in, and probably we will make it a misdemeanor if you just behave. All right? I mean, just don’t over-lawyer this thing. Hire Johnny Cochran if you want to, it’s none of my business. I don’t care, except he died. Get F. Lee Bailey. I’m mean, we’re not going to hurt you. You’re just a dumb-___ kid that made a dumb mistake. OK? No disrespect to you.”

Mier then admitted to committing the crimes.

Ali alleges Spencer violated Indiana criminal court rules by talking to his client without Ali being present. Ali also alleges the judge’s conversation with Mier amounted to a plea negotiation, something that shouldn’t have taken place.

“Mr. Ali makes factually inaccurate allegations against the court in respects to the initial hearing in Mr. Mier’s case,” the judge said without elaborating.

“More and more commonly though,” Spencer continued, “judges with no valid reason to consider recusal become the subject of unfound or frivolous complaints, lawsuits challenging the merits of their decisions or publicly disseminated personal attacks.”

Several attorneys not involved with Ali’s cases — including a deputy prosecutor and a few public defenders — attended the brief hearing Wednesday. Ali did not ask for the hearing when he filed his request for change of judge. Spencer scheduled the hearing, but said it wasn’t warranted shortly after it began.

“I don’t believe a hearing is necessary,” Spencer said. “There’s nothing to discuss. Your belief that I should disqualify myself because you filed a complaint against me is incorrect.”

Spencer refused to recuse himself in four of the cases. He said he would seek input from the Indiana Judicial Commission on whether he should remove himself from the Mier case.

Spencer did not give Ali a chance to speak during the hearing. The attorney’s comments were entered into the record after the proceedings concluded. Ali declined comment following the hearing.

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